Altec 19 ??? injection of reality.

[DSauro]

Thank you Todd, I regret that my first post on this forum was of this nature and had no intellectual value. My apology goes to you and all you other board contributors (excluding the kitten). As a former Altec Anaheim employee, I took Romy's comments as attacks, and a little too personal which was silly. I'll do better in the future.

[selmerdave]

Man, this guy is some kind of special idiot. He has a very elaborate site that is designed to appear as some sort of audio forum, and yet *he* is virtually the only participant! (I found one other, likely his alter ego) It's not hard to imagine that people aren't lining up to tap his massive brain, but talk about egomania. Pages and pages of drivel, trying to sound intelligent but failing severely. Oh, no, wait a minute, he has discovered that Klemperer was great! What a pioneering genius!

Romy, your facade of knowing what you're talking about only works with you, most of us see right through it to the pathetic egomaniac that needs to get a life. Time to go back and start another thread on your site to discuss with yourself how great your ideas are and how much you know about music.

Dave

[Romy the Cat]

[The entire post here was edited out - no intrinsic value whatsoever - TWW]

The caT

<font color="#FFFFFF" size="1">[ July 26, 2004 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Todd W. White ]</font>

[Hornluvr]

OK, the dust has settled. Todd, you did right to
ban the Cat, his language was simply getting unbearable. Still, browsing through the postings again after a good night`s sleep, I find this thread turns out to be the most interesting and
controversial discussion we have had for along time. ClausK, yes, sometimes I too wish I had a
second system, especially when listening to string-only music, it`s reproduction is a bit on
the down side of the model 19. I attended Europe`s
biggest Hi-End show in Munich recently. One of the
flagship systems on demonstration was the JM/Focal
Grande Utopia driven by Halcro DM-70s, an impressive array of current technology costing around $ 150,000. Perfection in every respect.Did
they win me over to draw my checkbook and dump my
Altecs? No Sir, Model 19 has more soul, more life,
more feeling! There is some magic about this system I have no explanation for.
Thank you all ,including the Cat, for a few enjoyable hours ! Regards, Martin Wunderlich

[kevin grier]

Well I'm glad you guys are happy, but I think that banning Romy is a big mistake. Maybe the forum name should be changed to "slavish altec appreciation" forum or something since dissent is apparently not to be tolerated. Romy was right in his claim that people were less civil and ruder and used strictly ad hominem arguments against him than he was to them, by a long shot i might add. A guy makes a true claim that by objective standards the 19's are not so great and he gets ridiculed, spat on, stupid puns, you name it. the upshot then is that he gets banned and everyone is happy. wow.

Kevin Grier aka EZ_Angus
Norman OK

[Todd W. White]

Hello Kevin, from a fellow Oklahoman!

Truthfully, I did NOT want to ban Romy.

This board is for discussion of the issues surrounding Altec products, and he is certainly entitled to his opinion, even if he is wrong.

Seriously, though - it was only when he resorted to attacking people personally (and, true, some folks reacted and flung dirt right back at him, which was not good, either) that I decided to try to reel him in a little, in the hopes that the discussion could get back on track, but to no avail. When I tried to reason with him privately, he posted the message publicly and attacked me, too. He then proceeded to get worse in his postings, which I warned him would not be tolerated.

I do NOT allow profanity on my board. Fortunately, the "nawty word filter" pulls them out, but you know what is going on when you see a word bleeped out. Romy's posts became more vulgar and vitriolic even after I tried to reason with him - he obviosusly did not want to discuss things, only CUSS things (pun intended).

Proof that he was not really willing to discuss the matter logically, rationally, and with civility showed up in his first post, and got worse as he went along. This series of assaults culminated in an e-mail from him to me where he ended his message by telling me what I could go do to myself after I informed him that he had been banned, and why.

In a civilized society, we can all agree and disagree as much as we want without resorting to name calling, inuendo's, bashing people for their opposing views and vitriol. Can we have spirited discussions and even heated disagreements here? SURE! That makes it fun and interesting! Are we to disagree and, when we do, spread venom and malice? NO!

Romy started out with a 'tude, and, in so doing, fomented others to riot, if you please - he KNEW what he was doing, as evidenced by his original post, and, I am convinced, never really wanted to share or learn, just bash.

There are places where he might be welcome to do such things, but not here.

In the final analysis, and some may not like it when I say this - and I mean NO offense to anyone for doing so, but this is MY board, and, therefore, it is mine to regulate as I deem best. I have only banned one other person in the entire time this board has been operating, starting at the old location, and, as I recall, it was for the same basic reason.

If anyone is offended by my actions, I am deeply regretful for it. Nevertheless, I stand by my decision to ban those who do not participate in a civil and constructive manner.

Thanks to all of you for your past and continued participation here - it's really great!

[boltupright]

In other words, The Cat brought it on himself, he was warned & proceeded to call us a bunch of morons,I don't think that this is about Altec Lansing.

[selmerdave]

EZ like most trolls I think it was relatively clear early on that he was not here to discuss anything. Bringing up how Altec stuff ***** at the Altec User's Board clearly shows the intention of reaction rather than discussion. There have been plenty of productive threads about how to improve various Altec products as well as comparisons to other speakers, and none of them started with "Altec ***** and you guys are all morons" or something to that effect.

Dave

[Hornluvr]

Romy, if you happen to read this: I would have loved to discuss the shortcomings of the M19 with
you. I know they`re there, no denying. But how come you call people who love and treasure a vintage speaker that went out of production decades ago morons? A tiny fraction of audio people clinging to a cherished antique that will never be produced again, MORONS? I`m sad and sorry
over your ban, but you deserved it. Martin

[scott fitlin]

You know what? Alot of vintage designs, and drivers had deficiencies, they were not perfect. Many systems, especially pro reinforcement systems, had large peaks, and other anomalies and require EQ to flatten things out. But yet, and I go through this all the time, alot of these vintage systems do something NO modern day gear does. They convey the music in a sense of being real! They disappear, and you only hear the music, and it can very emotionally involving!

At my buisiness we use the Altec 421-8LF in Altec basshorns, and years ago, we even knew that they were not FLAT, they couldnt take tons of power, but didnt need ton of power, they do have distortion, and yet, the vocal presence led one to believe the musicians were in the room with you!

Fast forward to today! I have played with every woofer, amplifier, cabinet, and other associated stuff, and NOTHING sounds like that older stuff did, even with its imperfections! I try to like the modern stuff, and I cant. Its synthetic sounding. Its canned sounding! Take some of the modern very high power drivers for example, they smoothed out the response of many of todays high power drivers, and they take the power, hold up, but, because of the things they had to do to get todays woofers to handle 600 watts and beyond, the frequency response is quite different. heavy cones, plus the extremly high power voice coils = lack of lower midband presence!

I suppose that if listening to music were really supposed to be an analytical or clinical experience I might be able to get into what they tell me is the correct sound! But, since listening to music is supposed to be enjoyable, fun, and emotional I cannot get into todays modern technically correct systems!

To each their own, BUT, dont tell me what to listen to, or how to listen to it! Romy did this to himself!

Today I replaced some newer amps, of very high quality, with older prized amps that I have, and what a difference! My guys that work for me even said but WHY does that old stuff sound like that? I dont know, but I know it does!

Ill take the Altec speakers and what they do wrong, as well as what they do right over any of todays speakers with everything they do thats supposedly technically right, because of what they DONT do that I cant live without!

Nuff said.